Template talk:Economy and industry of Cardiff

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I've removed a few public sector bodies that actually employ relatively few people locally. Cardiff Council lists major employers here (although the source is a few years old) and the Cardiff Business Directory[1] is another useful source.--Pondle (talk) 16:40, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-04T16:40:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2010-07-04T16:40:00.000Z-Major_employers","replies":[]}}-->

I've removed these because I don't think that they are really relevant to the template - their number of employees and turnover is likely to be in the very small range, hence their economic contribution is likely to be negligible. Plastic Raygun doesn't appear to exist any longer anyway. If they are notable for other reasons then Template:Culture_in_Cardiff would be a better place for them.--Pondle (talk) 17:02, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-05T17:02:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2010-07-05T17:02:00.000Z-Independent_record_labels","replies":[]}}-->

I don't believe that this template should include companies that aren't actually located in Cardiff, such as British Airways Engineering, which is based in the Vale of Glamorgan. User:Welshleprechaun argues that these are relevant as they "have a direct effect on the economy of Cardiff, regardless of local authority boundaries"[2] but I think that this is far too wide and ambiguous a definition. I know a number of people who live in Cardiff and work in Newport or Bristol, therefore their employers "have a direct effect on the economy of Cardiff". However, including them on this template would be a little strange!--Pondle (talk) 17:08, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-05T17:08:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2010-07-05T17:08:00.000Z-Scope_of_the_template","replies":["c-Welshleprechaun-2010-07-06T07:38:00.000Z-Pondle-2010-07-05T17:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

I agree, that would be strange. I suggest only including firms located in neigbouring authorities that play a significant role in the economy of Cardiff. BAMC is based at Cardiff Airport and wouldn't be there if Cardiff did not exist. Welshleprechaun 07:38, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-06T07:38:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2010-07-06T07:38:00.000Z-Pondle-2010-07-05T17:08:00.000Z","replies":["c-Pondle-2010-07-06T10:48:00.000Z-Welshleprechaun-2010-07-06T07:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

I take your point about the relevance of Cardiff Airport, nevertheless I'm still uncomfortable about including employers based outside the local authority - I would prefer to stick to the listings in the Cardiff Business Directory, which is clear and umambiguous. If no-one from WP Wales offers a view I'll raise the template at WP:RFC, because there are a number of issues around scope and inclusion criteria that we need to clarify.--Pondle (talk) 10:48, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-06T10:48:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Pondle-2010-07-06T10:48:00.000Z-Welshleprechaun-2010-07-06T07:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I would welcome comment on several issues:
(a) Should companies based outside Cardiff be included on the template? If so, what criteria should be used to determine inclusion?
(b) Are the independent record labels Peski Records, Placid Casual, Plastic Raygun and See Monkey Do Monkey worthy of inclusion under 'company and organisation headquarters?
(c) Should one-off major events be included?--Pondle (talk) 20:47, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-06T20:47:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2010-07-06T20:47:00.000Z-Request_for_comment","replies":["c-Snowded-2010-07-12T22:39:00.000Z-Pondle-2010-07-06T20:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

On the first, only those in Cardiff, on the third only major-major events, but in general no, on the second I am not qualified to say.--Snowded ^TALK 22:39, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-12T22:39:00.000Z","author":"Snowded","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Snowded-2010-07-12T22:39:00.000Z-Pondle-2010-07-06T20:47:00.000Z","replies":["c-Welshleprechaun-2010-07-13T07:46:00.000Z-Snowded-2010-07-12T22:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

You will notice that only one-off events that are "major-major" such as the Commonwealth Games and Tsunami Relief have been included. It would be ludicrous to include every one off festival or concert that has taken place in Cardiff; the template would be never-ending. As for the companies based outside Cardiff, there is only one on the template, BAMC based at Cardiff Airport and would not exist if Cardiff weren't there. I would not recommend adding any further companies based outside the city for the same reason. So let's be sensible here. Welshleprechaun 07:46, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-13T07:46:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2010-07-13T07:46:00.000Z-Snowded-2010-07-12T22:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Pondle-2010-07-14T19:25:00.000Z-Welshleprechaun-2010-07-13T07:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

I agree that we need to be sensible. That's why IMO focus should be on (as the title suggests) the economy - employers and amenities contributing to the ongoing production and consumption of goods and services - within Cardiff. I don't believe that past sporting or cultural events are relevant. OK, they created economic activity in the past, but they aren't factors in employment and GVA in 2010. You can make a case for the Tsunami Relief event at a push, but the 1958 Commonwealth Games? What relevance does it have to the present-day economy of Cardiff?--Pondle (talk) 19:25, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-14T19:25:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Pondle-2010-07-14T19:25:00.000Z-Welshleprechaun-2010-07-13T07:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->